Tags
authors, Barn Tarot, blog, blogging, Cathedral of Dreams, guest blogger, Raelyn Barclay, readers, reading, robots, Sweet Song, Terry Persun, The Soul of a New Machine, Tracy Kidder, Wall-e
I met Terry through a Goodreads group and had the honor of working with him on a project. It’s with great pleasure I welcome Terry Persun as today’s guest blogger.
Take it away Terry.
~ * ~
Do Robots Have Souls?
For anyone who has read The Soul of A New Machine
Let’s say that you believe that only humans have a soul. That animals and plants and insects and fish all live a soulless life. If that’s what you believe, then we’re done with this question. But, if you can assume that anything that is alive has a soul, then we may be getting somewhere. Now we only have to decide whether or not a robot (or other machine) is alive.
Don’t use the old “pull the plug and it stops” excuse here. Bears hibernate for months, some fish can be frozen over the winter and be thawed and then live again. If robots had batteries, they could slow their systems (or sleep, as my computer does if I leave it alone for a long time) and “wake up” when needed again. Life can be measured in a lot of different ways, but truth be told, it’s only alive or dead dependent on what rules we place on the explanation. Plus, solar energy could keep robots working, or we could devise a protein generator similar to our own human one.
If I were to say that anything that can perform the physical act of movement is alive, then a robot may be alive and a tree may not be. It’s all in how things are defined. So, I’m going to say that everything—rocks, bugs, fish, the kitchen table—has a soul. There, according to this definition, a robot has a soul. I may need to redefine what a soul is, but that’s just another way I choose to look at it.
It’s like a lot of the questions we ask ourselves. We get to change the answer based on our definitions. Politicians are good at this sort of thing. “If they’re not with us, they are against us.” Yeah, no room for a neutral party there. And no room for any gradation. It’s all digital: yes or no. I look at how we classify animals and think that we could have adjusted our classifications any number of ways. Animals that walk on two legs and animals that walk on four…or six, or eight.
We could say that Robots that are used for human interactions have souls and those that are merely used to carry out a particular function do not have souls. Maybe the robot as a whole has a soul, but each component has no soul. So, I might have a soul, but if my arm is cut off, it doesn’t have a soul separately. Whole things have souls, but not parts of things. And if that’s true, then a tree might have a soul, but the branches we trim from it don’t, and the leaves that fall don’t have souls either.
If I were to answer this question, though, based on my own beliefs, I’d say that everything has a soul in some way or another. I like to think that everything folds back into the Earth and is changed. Like scientists believe about energy: it can be changed, but it is always present.
Fun things to think about, for sure, but I doubt we’ll ever have a true answer that can be proven.
What do you think? Do robots have souls?
~ * ~
In Newcity, everyone is content. Bad feelings are not allowed, because your monitoring chip will alert the police to bring you in for treatment. Getting better is mandatory. Unchecked emotions made the world outside Newcity dangerous, unruly, and violent. At least that’s the official story in Newcity. Keith knows something is wrong. Strange visions lead him to become one of the few who escapes Newcity. He finds freedom and companionship outside, but pressure building to revolt against the city’s insidious regime of social control. Leadership is thrust upon him, with only his visions for guidance, only a small band of friends for support—and the fates of both Newcity and the outside world at stake. Cathedral of Dreams is a compelling tale of a dystopian future and personal heroism.
An archetypal American story of self-discovery, set against the turmoil of post – Civil War America, Sweet Song tells the story of the mixed race son of a white landowner and a black house servant. Leon, raised black but an outcast from both cultures, finds himself suddenly on his own — and passing for white. Wrestling with a divided heritage in a world where honesty, even with friends, might prove fatal, he falls in with dispossessed thieves, mill workers, saloon keepers, musicians, businessmen, thugs, freedom loving idealists and malevolent racists — a vivid panorama from America’s past. This tender, raw, provocative novel speaks from the heart about where we’ve come from and who we are.
Bio: Terry Persun is a full-time writer, with two published poetry collections: Every Leaf and Barn Tarot
Persun’s latest novel, Cathedral of Dreams
Raelyn Barclay 
Such an interesting post. Not a question easily answered. In my own thoughts, I’ve come to a simple conclusion, not one to be given any special merit on the topic. Free Will. A human being has free will to choose to love or hate, serve or demand, praise or curse. We struggle with emotions and desires. We, in our hearts, understand good and bad – it’s naturally built into us. Do we all agree? No. That’s free will.
I’ve seen glimpses of free will in some animals. My dog, for instance. He loves us unconditionally. It’s humbling to experience, because he does not love the stranger walking down the sidewalk – unconditionally or otherwise! Ha! He doesn’t have to obey my commands – he could ignore me – or even hurt me if he wanted to. Yet, when I say, ‘Come,’ he trots over, eager for affection and praise. He experiences guilt – (even the dog feels guilty in a Jewish home!). He recently took some meat I had on my butcher block. I returned home and immediately, he hung his head, put his ears back. He had a guilty look in his eyes! I swear it! As I neared the kitchen, he literally got on his belly and slunk across the floor to face his ‘dirty-deed’. He was so contrite. Is that the sign of a soul? I want to say yes. But, surely, I don’t know.
Robots do not experience emotion, at least not in the way I understand emotion. (there’s that pesky free will asserting itself again…lol) They can only act and function as their programming allows them, and cannot debate over an issue in their hearts. This issue intrigues me; has since the movie ‘Centennial Man’ (I think that was the name of it) came out. My mind also sparked with questions when irobot came out. My kids are convinced the W-A-L-L-E is real and just like a person. Sigh. They exist in a new world, with new connundrums to be puzzled.
Sorry for the tome…lol. I can ramble on…:}
Free will…excellent point Nadja!
I love that you mentioned your dog. So many people get caught up with the ‘pack’ idea that we forget it is the dog’s will whether it conforms to the pack rules or not. Every dog expert I know talks about not projecting human emotions onto our fur family members yet when they show remorse over something like stealing meat off the counter how can we not. Maybe the dog is just a great actor, LOL
But what about artificial intelligence? So many AI’s are considered “learning” programs. Is it really that much of a stretch for an AI to develop a personality, or soul, beyond its programing?
Thanks for weighing in on this Nadja 🙂
The question posed and addressed for this post is one that beyond any ability to define with bold lines of yes or no. There’s so much gray it’s ridiculous.
Do robots have souls? Honestly, it can be possible given the advancement in artificial intelligence. Programs are “learning” at break-neck speeds. I would even push this further and ask does a human lose their soul should they receive robotic hands to hold, mechanical legs to run or an adaptive bio-mechanical heart to live? Can we then define that being as no longer human and therefore soulless?
Ha! I do believe you are a sister “Devil’s Advocate” Angela.
Maybe the question becomes…what defines life? Is it the ability to reproduce? A robot would be able to construct another robot thereby reproducing. Is it the ability to respond to stimuli? A single cell organism does that. A robot certainly does, if only within the parameters of its programing. Is it emotions? Thoughts? Is it that free will Nadja mentioned? Is it the ability to die?
Thanks for weighing in on the discussion Angela 🙂
Nadja brings up a lot of good points. When I wrote True Believers, one of the secondary characters was an AI who after amassing so much information realized his own consciousness and conscience. I never went so far as to suggest a soul, but certainly being self-aware would have to be one of several conditions necessary for a soul.
Do robots have souls? Not yet. Or at least, not here. Robots are still ruled by a code of conduct written by humans. When they start making their own rules, then we can talk turkey.
And that AI character stole the show Maria!
Self-awareness…excellent point. Would you say Tank, Iko, or Mama are self-aware? Sometimes I feel like Beastie Girl is but more often than not I’d say she isn’t. Yet I’d like to think she has a soul, though less complex than a human’s. Of course, there I go projecting human feelings and traits onto an animal again.
I’m not sure I want to be around when robots are writing their own rules!
Thanks for weighing in on the subject Maria…I knew you wouldn’t be able to pass it up 😀
Wow, I love that this makes us all think. The idea that someone with a pacemaker might not have a soul, is worth considering. This is the stuff of science fiction that I love so much, and why I write it (along with other stuff). Your comments make me rethink my own piece. Now, that’s cool.
There’s definitely been some inspiring fodder here today! Thanks so much for guest posting Terry.
A soul, as in “a consciousness that remains after the death of the physical form”?
We’re not even sure WE’VE got one of those!
Would you be willing to accept “Self-awareness and memory” as a practical alternative?
I think the answer is eventually going to boil down to whether of not “self-awareness” is present. For a start, I believe there is the “Mirror Test” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test ) which is a simple–though not totally conclusive–way to check for self-awareness. There is always the good ol’ standby: the Turing Test. The problem would be if someone was able to PROGRAM a robot or an application to successfully mimic self-awareness.
Come to think of it–how do I know that anyone but myself has self-awareness? How do I assume that you’re all not just faking it? How do I know that any of you are even capable of the metacognition necessary to read, interpret, process and respond to what I know I am typing…? Damn!
Self-awareness and memory…it probably does boil down to that.
How do ANY of us know if anyone but ourselves are self-aware? Maybe y’all are robots programed to act self-aware….
Thanks for stopping by and adding your comment to the discussion Steve 🙂
Raelyn,
I know *I’m* not a robot. It’s the REST of you that I’m worried about!
😆
I know I’m not a robot. Y’all, well, I just know you online…
(Hey, Terry! Fancy meeting you here! Will you please tell Raelyn, that I’m not a robot, programmed to mimic self-awareness? Thanks.)
Wow, what a thought provoking post. I have my beliefs, but I think it is awesome to have an open mind. I do think in science-fiction many robots are constructed with souls. In real life, well, I guess we are talking about SF here. 🙂 I think this is why science fiction is such an amazing genre.
Definitely fodder for the ol’ mind in this post and the comments! And you’re so right Ciara, this is one of the reasons science fiction is fascinating.
Thanks for stopping by 🙂
I strongly disagree with the idea of changing definitions to fit your concept. I point that out about self aware robots where another blogger that does the same thing. If you can just change definitions at will to suit your need for an answer, how can you ever lie under oath? Who said your definition for yes is the correct one I define yes what you define as no.
When we both speak English we must agree on the terms if not we might as well say we don’t speak the same language.
I enjoyed your article Eli, thanks for linking to it. This is/was a purely fictional debate in my mind. A trip into the science fiction genre.
Thank you for presenting the flip side.
Certainly a fun trip